Over the years I’ve built up considerable opt in mailing lists of well over 500,000 from scratch using a plethora of techniques which I’m now introducing you to through The Wealthness Blog.
I’ll also bring you absolutely anything I feel is of value to your online business.
I know what works and I know the people who you need to listen to. Below is a transcript of a teleseminar by Jim Edwards and Steve Pierce. I have reproduced it here as it covers some excellent list building techniques for getting the most from list building:
Stephen Pierce has a number of successful list-building ventures to his credit. He’s used those lists to sell software, coaching programs, information products… he even used his lists to help generate over two and a half Million dollars in sales from just one project.
Stephen is an expert in one of the key areas of list building… driving wave after wave of targeted traffic to a website… because without targeted traffic, you can have the best offer in the world, but if nobody sees it, you’ll fail. Also, he is excellent at teaching others how to implement his traffic strategies quickly and profitably.
Jim Edwards burst onto the Internet scene 4 years ago with no list… no real contacts… and nothing but a burning desire to become a success!
In a very short period of time, Jim was able to build up not just one, but two lists of over 10,000 subscribers each. He has since built up multiple lists to a total subscription of over 100,000 subscribers… and used those lists to help generate over 10,000 individual sales online last year!
In short, we both know exactly how to create, set up and build extremely profitable lists. But, more importantly, we know how to teach YOU what you need to know to set up your own profitable subscriber lists!
JIM: I want to welcome everybody to the Ultimate List Building
Tips, Tricks and Techniques call. I’m your co-host, Jim Edwards,
along with my good friend and partner, Mr. Stephen Pierce.
STEPHEN: Yes, and it’s going to be an extremely exciting call
today or tonight, depending on where you are.
JIM: That’s right, or yesterday or wherever you are in the world.
So let’s just jump right in. By way of an introduction, those of you
that may be from Stephen’s list that don’t know me, my name is
Jim Edwards. I publish information on the Internet. I publish a
number of newsletters, most notably the “I Gotta Tell You”
newsletter that is rather interesting, and we’ll talk more about how
I use interesting to build a relationship with my list. Stephen, why
don’t you introduce yourself in a thumbnail?
STEPHEN: I’m Stephen Pierce. A lot of people know me from both
The Whole Truth as well as Smart Pages, for those that don’t know
who I am. That was a very short intro.
JIM: Okay. That was too short. I lost track of my notes. (I’m just
playing.) Hey, I wanted to ask you, by way of starting out, one of
the things we want to tell people about is why you actually want to
have a list. But instead of just jumping right into the advantages of
having a list, why don’t you share with the people on the call what’s
one of the coolest things you’ve ever been able to do as a result of
having a list and having a relationship with your list? I’m just going
to throw you a curve ball right from the beginning.
STEPHEN: I would say pretty much writing my own ticket, in the
sense that when you cultivate and nurture the proper kind of
relationships with the people that are on your list, you kind of blur
the line between computer and computer and it kind of gets really
personal. They care about you, whether it’s your birthday or you’re
not feeling good, and they trust you so they trust your
recommendations. And you then start to look and be a little bit
more careful with what offers you start to send over. Because
you’ve gone beyond the situation of, you know, “I just want to go
ahead and make some money so I’m just going to blast all of these
offers out to my list,” to the point of, “I need to look out for them
and I need to make sure that this offer is something that’s going to
move them vertically up towards where it is they want to ultimately
go.” And by doing that and developing that kind of relationship,
you’re able to send out mailings and make a high five figures or six
figures in just a matter of like 1, 2, 3 days.
JIM: I agree with you a hundred million percent. I’m going to
share one of the coolest things that I was able to do because I had
a good relationship with my list, because I knew what they wanted.
About a year ago, I was able to be John Reese’s number one
affiliate when he released “Traffic Secrets” and was, through the
course of adding value to my list, creating an MP3 file, a PDF file
and a bunch of other value added stuff, was able to generate
enough in commissions, the equivalent of being able to buy one
and a half hummers. That was pretty cool.
STEPHEN: And you know what, what else was pretty cool? We
were the number two affiliate.
JIM: That’s right.
STEPHEN: That was pretty cool.
JIM: There you go. I beat you.
STEPHEN: Yeah, you did, and we were in touch with Reese. We
said, “Well, how far ahead is he?”
JIM: I was real far ahead on that one. But the point is, is that
when you have a relationship with people, you have a relationship
with the people on your list, I think it’s important that what
Stephen just said, it’s really becomes your responsibility to be a
guard for them, not a babysitter, but a friend and a mentor.
So let’s talk about why you want to have a list. Now, to some
people they say, you know, “Oh well, you know the biggest reason
you want to have a list, and specifically a list of opt-in subscribers,
that you have at least their name and email address,” people say,
“Well, the obvious advantage is that you can make money.” Well,
money, as you and I have discussed in the past, is really an affect.
It’s not a cause.
JIM: And so money is the result of providing value for your list.
But I’d say the number one advantage of having a list is basically
making money selling your own products. And I know that pretty
much every time you roll out a product, Stephen, it’s pretty much,
if it’s not common knowledge you can fly through the phone and
beat me senseless, but pretty much every time you guys roll out a
product now you’re looking at a six figure launch, aren’t you?
STEPHEN: Yeah, pretty much just looking at a six-figure launch.
And I totally agree with you that what you have to do when you
start looking at building your list and growing that list and
generating a ton of revenue, pretty much like Jim was mentioning,
because it’s something that we talked about. You know, everybody
knows that you’re in this business online or offline to make money.
So it’s not even a part of the equation; that’s automatic. The
question becomes where are you going to provide the value, what
gaps do you see, and what kind of value are you going to provide
so that your list, besides what it is your offering, is more valuable
than the money they have on their hand that they’re willing to
make that exchange. The value has to be that strong. Otherwise,
you’re just somebody else that’s out there that’s just hammering
the ground, just try to make money off of other people. You need
to focus on the value, driving that to the top line of your business,
which is where your list is and your customers and your clients and
your prospects are. And then the bottom line of your business, as
far as the profits go, are going to take care of themselves.
JIM: Right. And the cool thing about having your own list is that
when you come out with a new product, you blast it out to your list
and all that profit is yours. You don’t have to share it with anybody.
You don’t have to pay commissions on that. And so, that’s one of
the biggest reasons why you want to build the list, is so that you
can keep funneling new products down to the list, always building
value, always providing tremendous value. But let’s face it. The
cold hard fact is that once you have a list, you want to drive
product to the list that they want.
STEPHEN: Right, and on another side. Some of you that are on
here that, you know, you have a list but you’re not able to fully
maximize the profitable potential, you know, from that list. And a
lot of what we’re talking about right now to you may be common
knowledge. But what we’re hoping to accomplish from this is to
show you that it’s not just about having the list. It’s about having,
developing, cultivating and nurturing the right kind of list that
yields those kind of results. Because you can go buy a list, you can
go do all kinds of different things to get a list, but there’s a
difference between a high performance list, that you build a
relationship, versus a list that you’re just throwing together,
because you want to get a list and try to make some money off of
it. It’s a different mindset and the results of the kind of list you
develop are completely different.
I guarantee you the kind of relationships that people have
developed with the lists that have been making them money are
completely different than the kind of relationships that people have
developed with a list that’s not making them money. And we’re
hoping that we’ll be able to help you to overcome any of those
particular barriers that you may be facing in being able to maximize
the potential of your list, as far as developing profits by
understanding the kind of value you need to be giving to them.
JIM: Yeah. And I think a lot of people have ego attached to the
size of their list. It’s almost like, “Well, when I get a big enough
list, then I’ll start working it and providing the value.” And I think
that’s a major mistake. It goes along with the metaphor that Earl
Nightingale used to tell, which is of the man sitting in front of the
stove who looks at the stove and says, “When you give me heat,
then I’ll give you some wood.” And so, the important thing to
understand is that, no matter what size list you have, it’s important
to nurture it and it’s important to build that relationship. And we’re
going to talk about that a little later on in the call.
But the second way that you can make money is basically selling
other people’s products. Now, it is not possible for you to come out
with a product twice a month and have a really good product
coming out. Maybe you could do one once a month, but I really
doubt that anybody could come out with two products a month
consistently month after month after month after month. And,
therefore, you can also make money with your list recommending
other people’s products. Now, we said just a minute ago that each
of us, we were number one and number two as affiliates for John
Reese’s Traffic Secrets. That’s where everybody really got exposed
to this whole rollout method and the big day of the rollout and all of
that stuff, which I’m not sure one way or the other whether that
model is still good or not, but that’s not the purpose of this call.
JIM: The bottom line is if you have a list and you find a product
that works, and you find a product that you trust, then you almost
have a duty to roll out to your own list, or to the parts of your list
that are very targeted for that offer, you basically have a duty to
let them know about it.
STEPHEN: Right. That’s an important point and we just need to
cover this before we start getting into some specifics to help you
with your list building and building the relationships. But, that’s an
important point, because some people are afraid to email offers to
their list because they don’t want people to feel as if they’re money
grabbers, and they don’t want people to opt out. Well, if you have
your list set up the right way, you build the right relationships, like
Jim was saying, you’re pretty much obligated to let them know.
Imagine your physician knowing that he could prescribe something
to you that can help you in an area that you are experiencing some
pain, and he doesn’t do that because he doesn’t want you to feel as
if he’s just trying to get some money out of you. That’s not how
you need to look at it. You need to look at it like, listen you’re
trying to move vertically somewhere. You’re trying to get
somewhere. There’s this huge gap in your life between where you
are today and where you ultimately want to be. And I have an idea
and I found this guy, or I found this gal or whatever the solution is,
that can get you closer. So it’s my obligation to let you know about
this. It’s up to you to decide, but I give him one hundred percent
endorsement. And again, depending on that relationship, if that
relationship is strong, that endorsement can be good enough, as
good as gold, that would get them to go ahead and take you up on
But what happens is, as long as your own products or the products
you’re recommending that are produced by other people are good
and they get some kind of yield from it, then you’re fine with
presenting them with offers. But if you’re offering them garbage
and people don’t like it, it’s not everything they say it’s going to be
and they’re not getting any kind of results from it, then shame on
you. And then, of course, you may feel pretty bad trying to present
more offers to them because you’re losing money and they’re not
making any kind of movement. But if you know this stuff is working
for them, then you’re obligated to constantly let them know about
it because they should be getting some results. And hopefully, if it’s
in the business of making money, which a lot of people seem to be
in, then they should be making some kind of money in return off of
each one of those propositions you give to them that they can just
turn around and just reinvest back into themselves to build up that
knowledge based and an understanding base into those new
products. And many people won’t have a problem with that if you
build the right relationship.
JIM: I agree.
STEPHEN: So, you can be guilty.
JIM: Let me kick in one extra thought on that. If you are doing
this the right way, in other words, if you have the right attitude
toward your list, a lot of times when you do recommend a product,
you should have used it first. Some of the most successful offers of
other people’s products come when you simply go to your list and
say, “Hey, I found this product. I used it. These are the results I
got with it. Here’s the good. Here’s the bad. I think you should get
it.” When you’ve used it and you’ve produced results and you can
show people how you actually used it, your ability to endorse and
the people’s receptivity to what your telling them, it takes it out of
the realm of you’re pitching them and it turns it into your guiding
them and mentoring them. So anytime that you can use a product
ahead of time, and see what kind of results it will provide, see what
kinds of things that people can expect, see what kinds of things
them a fair and balanced approach, they’re going to, a) trust you
more, b) be more likely to buy and, c) you’re going to make dough.
JIM: A couple of other advantages of having a list. Those are the
two major advantages. You get to sell your own stuff. You get to
sell other people’s stuff. Some of the other advantages of having
your own list are not as obvious, but in some ways they can be
even more profitable in the long run. The number one favorite one
for me is basically traffic on demand. When I have an idea; when I
have some new thing I want to test out; when I have a new video I
want people to look at and I want to gauge their reaction. Or let’s
say I have a script that I want to test out to see how people are
going to react when certain things happen on the website. Instead
of having to wait and have this trickle effect, I can send a
thousand, two thousand people to a website and know instantly
whether my idea is going to work or not. And that is so valuable
because it saves you the most important asset that any of us have,
which is, of course, time. And so, the ability to put a couple
thousand sets of eyeballs on a website in order to figure something
out is extremely valuable. Another advantage of having your own
list is instant market research. That’s one of the things that you’re
really good at, Stephen, is finding out from your subscribers what
they want to buy and what they want to buy next. Right?
STEPHEN: Right. Again, I like talking about gaps, and there’s
what I call value gaps. And actually everybody, you should write
this down, because if you have a list or you plan on developing a
list, you can find this to be useful. It’s something that we give to
our clients called the hundred-dollar question. You can send out to
your list a simple question. What you do is you just give them a list
of five or ten different features or benefits that you offer and you
send them a question. And the question is, “If you only had a
hundred dollars to allocate, to get what it is you wanted, how would
you allocate it?” And they will send it back to you. For those that
are going to respond, you can incentivise them; you know, offer
them something in return for responding to the survey, or
whatever. They’re going to send back to you an email or fax,
depending on how you want to get it back, or you can use like a
survey monthly or something; do it online. But they’re going to
send you back, letting you know out of what it is you offered, and
you can leave a blank for where they can mention something that
you may not offer. They’re going to send you back a hierarchy of
what matters most to them. And you’ll find many times that what
you consider to be important or of value to the marketplace is not
something that’s important to them. What happens is you start to
close the gap between what you think and feel the market values
versus what it is they ultimately say they value. The more you can
close that gap, the greater the profits are going to be in your
business because now you can start to create products. Don’t
overshoot what it is they’re ultimately looking for, but actually
meet what’s good enough. People aren’t actually looking for the
perfect product. People are looking for something that’s good
enough to get it done…
STEPHEN: … to their satisfaction.
JIM: … to get it done to their satisfaction right now.
STEPHEN: Right. And that is the only way to really know what
your market is really holding as the balance of value is to ask them.
If you don’t ask them, you’re still running your business under pure
assumptions. And by having the list you have the power of being
able to contact them and just ask them, not an open-ended
question, but ask them specifically based on what it is you know
you’re offering, so you can find out how they value what it is you
offer, and also let you know something that you’re missing.
JIM: That’s a really good point. Another advantage of having your
own list comes down to testing headlines and other copy elements
on your website. One of the cool things about the web is, of course,
setting up these mini sites that have sales letters on them that sell
people stuff. And we also know that you can have a situation where
one headline is going to outperform another headline massively.
Well, instead of, again, waiting for this trickle thing, when you have
a list, you can set it up ahead of time so that you can be testing
three different headlines at the same time. And so by getting that
traffic surge, you’re able to really tweak your copy, which can make
the difference between okay profits and massive profits, because
just by tweaking your headlines and tweaking your copy elements
and having that list, you’re able to compress time. In what would
take someone without a list a couple of months to figure out, you’re
able to figure out in a space of twenty-four to forty-eight hours.
JIM: Now let’s jump right into the keys to building an effective and
profitable list, and there are actually four phases or steps of
building a list, and we’re going to cover each one of these in depth.
I just want to give you an overview of the four steps right now.
Step one is targeting a niche audience. You’re targeting a group of
Step two is to create a relevant offer. And what that means is that
if you’ve got a group that’s interested in real estate, you’re not
offering them Barbie collectibles.
Step three is driving targeted traffic to that relevant offer that
you’re using to build the list.
Step four is growing your relationship with the list through
So, let’s move right on to step one, and bottom line, it all starts
with targeting and focusing on a specific, narrow niche audience.
And the more tightly focused the niche, the easier it is. I want you
to write this down: The more tightly focused the niche, the easier it
is to find, identify and recruit them onto your list. Now let’s talk
about, just for a minute, some examples of niche markets that we
actually target in our businesses. Now, one of the niche audiences
that I go after is for sale by owners. These are people that want to
sell their house themselves. Now, I could go after the general
market of real estate or people that want to sell their house, but I
focus in very narrowly and very specifically on a niche audience of
people that want to sell their house themselves. And when I narrow
down that niche, I’m able to identify them. I’m able to go where
they go. I’m able to put advertisements in front of them. I’m able
to put messages in front of them that make them want to buy my
product and make them, sometimes more importantly, sign up for
my list. So that’s one of the examples that I have. What are some
of the niche markets that you go after, Stephen?
STEPHEN: One thing, as far as our niche marketing mindset is, is
that, for one you look at a market and you look at the niche
market, but then you look to fragment that niche down to a more
micro segment, which is what we call nanoniche marketing, and
then you look to scale that market up. Now this, of course, isn’t the
platform to talk about that. But what happens is when you do that,
you actually fragment a niche market to your advantage where you
know that you can bring the most talent and you can do something
there not only as good as somebody else, but you’re able to do it
better than everybody else in that niche, and you can do it
competitively so that you have an advantage in that niche. And not
necessarily as fragmented according to what other people are
defining the market being set up at. And when you do that, you
pretty much control the sandbox and you’re able to set it up so that
you have… You know, imagine people playing a football game
where there’s a forty-five degree slant, you know, for the offense. I
mean, they’ll just plow through the defense. They wouldn’t even
have a chance. That’s the kind of advantage you’re looking to set
up. And because you have the ability to pick your niche and then
fragment those niches, that’s what you want to do. So, that’s one
of the approaches that it is that we take. When we’re looking at a
niche market, we’re not looking at a niche as how it’s defined by
other people, but we’re looking at how to fragment it to our own
JIM: Now, that’s a very interesting point. So, one of your primary
niche markets is people that are investing, traders.
JIM: And I think most people, if they were to think of a niche
market, they would think of day traders.
JIM: But that’s still a huge market that you have fragmented and
built lists around much smaller groups within that “day trader
market.” What are some of those?
STEPHEN: I will give you some examples. For many people it’s
just hard for them to believe, even when they see that actual
evidence. I’ll just give you one quick example so that we can go to
some of the other stuff. Take, for example, Fibonacci trading. You
can go to Wordtracker. You can go to xxxx,
xxxx, to whatever. Look at how many people
each month look for Fibonacci trading. It’s like about 260 people a
month. It’s pretty much an obscured, what we call a nanoniche
market as the way we define it and the way we look at different
markets inside of the niche markets. But according to normal
marketing wisdom, that’s not the kind of market you should be
building a business around or be building a product around.
However, we built one product that’s combined with online and
offline sales that’s done a million dollars in sales.
But it’s like how in the world can you do those numbers off of a
niche that has only 260 people looking for it a month? Well, those
numbers, as far as how many people are looking for it each month,
can be extremely deceiving. Just because a lot of people aren’t
looking for it does not mean that they would not like to have the
benefit of what it is that particular phrase may provide as far as
what that phrase relates to, as far as a solution goes. They just
may not know how to look for that specific thing. It’s up to you as
the visionary or the creator to take it and then scale to that up
market and relate that to what it is they are conscious of. And by
doing that, you basically allow yourself to rapidly move up market
with very little competition, and then that’s how you’re able to just
make huge amounts of profits…
JIM: Because you were…
STEPHEN: … in multiple areas.
JIM: You were talking about something that other people weren’t
talking about because it was too small.
JIM: “Too small,” but when you showed the people that this was
fitting and totally in line with what their “niche objective” was, the
reason they were in that trading niche, all of a sudden you were the
only one with the solution.
STEPHEN: Right. Most people look at those little key words and
maybe think that’s maybe good enough to make some contingent
offer to get some search engine traffic, and whatever they get off
of this fine. I mean, they’re missing a huge opportunity. That’s
what we look at as opportunity gaps in search engines, opportunity
gaps as far as product creation opportunities go. It depends on
your perspective. That’s what creativity is about. It’s about a
change of perspective. It depends on how you’re looking at these
different niches, and when we look at it, we fragment them to our
advantage. Nobody was scaling markets, scaling products. In fact,
to this day, very few people know how to go deep down in
nanoniche marketing and then scale products up from very lowlevel
phrases that very few people are aware of. And if you discover
how to do that, you’ll have a huge advantage in your market and
cab completely redefine how you go about doing what people call
JIM: Excellent. Well I think that really illustrates the fact that the
more tightly you’re focused in the niche, number one the less
competitive it’s going to be because everybody else is trying to cast
this wide net; they’re trying to be everything to all people. Also I
would say, would you agree this, that typically it’s less expensive to
advertise to reach them on pay-per-clicks. Not always, but
typically, the more focused you are, the less it costs. Would you
agree with that?
STEPHEN: I completely agree. Here’s the thing. Being extremely
successful at marketing in anything is about being extremely
smart. It’s about thinking strategically, not trying to out-muscle
people or anything like that. Think about the best running back in a
football game. Those are the guys that know how to see a gap and
seize that gap in an instant and cut, even if the original play said to
go left. They’re able to see that the left is bottlenecked, there’s a
gap open in the middle or to the right, and they’re able to cut right,
like Barry Sanders, and go through that gap. And it would be
insane to see a gap to the right but yet still run the play up the
middle because that’s what the play called for. That’s not what it is
you want to do when it comes to developing your products and
targeting different niches.
We used the Fibonacci trading. For just one example, go look at the
phrase “trading plan,” like maybe 560 people a month. We did one
product on that that did over half a million dollars in sales. We’ve
done it for all kinds of different things. Market timing. Very few
people look for that. We’ve done it for like almost seven different
trading areas while everybody else was looking at putting together
something for options trading. There’s so many. There’s like 100
and some thousand searches for months on option trading and all
kinds of option trading products out there.
So the moment you come out with that, the heat that you have,
the competitive advertising dollars that you have and the
competitive products that you have out there are so huge that
you’re going to have to try to operate and out-muster the
competition. And that’s not what you want to do. You want to outthink
them, be able to use very little dollars, and scale something
from below the market and scale it up market and have a huge
advantage when it comes to generating sales in market awareness.
JIM: Well, when you do that too, it also enables you to be able to
provide information that is much more relevant and much more
interesting. If you’re not out there providing the exact same
information as everybody else, but you’re providing a fresh
perspective, a different angle, something that no one else is talking
about that makes sense, when we’re talking from a content
perspective, that actually gives you a huge advantage over the
STEPHEN: Right. You know what? Here’s something that you want
to look into to try to build into your marketing, your products, your
concepts, your messages or whatever. If you can get your market
to say, “Wow, I didn’t know that,” chances are you’ll have a winner.
JIM: That’s a great point. “Wow, I didn’t know that, and I need
STEPHEN: Yep. The chances are you’ll have a winner. If they’re
constantly saying, “Well I know that,” it’s not a question about if
they’re using it. Because one thing we tell our clients is that,
“Forget reality, perceptions rule.” If they feel as if they know it, it’s
not a question of if they’re using, benefiting from it. If they feel as
thought they know it, or they’re not interested in it, game over. It
doesn’t matter how much better you think you were than them.
Whether it’s dramatically different or it’s just incrementally
different, it doesn’t matter. If they feel that they already know it,
game over. You need to put yourself in a position where they’re like
“BAM, Wow, I did not know that.”
JIM: Yes, and I misspoke before when I said, “Wow, I did not
know that, and I need that.” What you want them to say is, “Wow,
I did not know that, and I want that” because people spend money
on what they want, not what they need, and they also will sign up
for your list when they feel like you have something they want, not
something they need. So, that’s really step one. Step one is target
a laser-focused niche audience. Now that may sound obvious, but
how many of you are actually doing that?
So now we’re on to step two. And basically, step two is create a
relevant offer that gets people jumping up and down in their seat
and fumbling over their keyboard, racing to put in their name and
email address. I would say that the big thing to understand is that
the days of just throwing an offer up on your website or saying,
“Hey, subscribe to my newsletter” or offering people a free ebook in
exchange for them signing up for your newsletter are pretty much
gone. Would you agree?
STEPHEN: Yeah, it’s a bunch of people trying to extend what was
instead of creating what could be. You have to try to get ahead of
the market and not lag behind the market. As long as you try to
keep up with the pace of what everybody else is doing, you’re
guaranteed to be behind. And nothing you’re doing is going to be
fresh, you’re not going to have that “Wow” affect, and if you’re not
wowing people, it becomes extremely difficult in today’s product
marketplace to generate a lot of dollars.
JIM: Right, and so the biggest thing that you’ve got to do is from
1973, The Godfather: You need to make them an offer they can’t
JIM: That means that basically in order to get them to sign up to
your list, you’ve got to bribe them, but you’ve got to bribe them
with something that everybody else is not bribing them with. So, it
can’t be the free ebook of the week. It can’t be the free ebook of
the month. It can’t be what everybody else is doing. You can’t do
the same thing that everybody else is doing. And there are a lot of
ways to do that, one of which is to inject your personality into
everything you do and then nobody can rip you off.
STEPHEN: It’s something that one of my mentors told me, he said
that if a lot of people are copying you, that’s the best form of
flattery, but business-wise, it’s considered to be the worst form of
strategy. The worst thing you can do is try to copy your closest
competitor or what somebody else is doing, because statistically
over 80% of copy type products, or whatever, just completely fail.
STEPHEN: And the only thing you do, you basically take
everything into a commodity war where other people come in and
the competitors either take the market, or your prices are engulfed
because you have this commodity price war that’s going on. So
now all the prices are lowering, and now you have to try to find
what differentiates yourself so you can start to get premium prices
again, and who wants to go through all that?
STEPHEN: So the best thing to do is try to do something that
makes it extremely difficult for other people to copy. If you did it in
one week, the competitors can probably do it in half a week.
JIM: That’s an interesting way of looking at it. But…
STEPHEN: Oh and it is, and that’s how you have to think about it.
Is what you’re doing different? Is what you’re doing different
enough that people would pay attention to it? Is it different and
competitive? Is it easy to copy? You know, because if it’s easy to
copy, then you know what the heck? You want to try to do things
that would be a little bit out of range from your competitors.
JIM: Right, or do something that’s off the radar that nobody else
is really going to think of, which is kind of hard to do in and of itself
because, if no ones thinking of it, then probably no ones buying.
STEPHEN: You can create the market for it, but that’s a
completely different ball game.
JIM: Yeah, that’s a different call. Let’s talk about a couple sample
offers that have worked for us in the past, just to give illustration of
making people an offer they can’t refuse. I would say that a real
good illustration for everybody that’s listening to this call is the
offer that was made for this call. Now, one of the most important
things, one of the questions I always get and I’m sure you get this,
Stephen, with anything you sell that’s related to doing business on
the Internet, everybody say, “Okay, I understand this, I understand
this, I understand this, but how do I build up a list?” That’s one of
the most popular questions besides, “How do I drive traffic to my
website?” The number two question that we always get is, “How do
I build the list?”
So we made an offer to you, and now we have a sub-list of people
that are interested in building a list. Now, that offer, in and of itself,
was good enough to get people on the call, because the desire to
know more about it, the offer, was enough to overcome your
reluctance to give your name, your email, and in some cases even
your phone number.
Now, another example of an offer that I’m using to build a big list is
on my mini-site creator website. That’s basically where I have a
name capture page that grabs subscribers before I ever let them
even see the sales letter. And I have developed a list of over ten
thousand subscribers on that one list in four months. Now, I
actually have ten thousand thirty-two subscribers as of fifteen
minutes ago, but that’s the exact number. But the reason I was
able to get them on there is it’s a targeted audience, it’s a very
specific offer that’s targeted to them, but I also just plain bribe
them. I make an offer that they can’t refuse, which is a full onehour
audio of a teleseminar that I did where I reveal my mini-site
secrets, where I actually give them a whole lot of really good
information about mini-sites. It’s the offer of that MP3 along with
the offer of being able to see the information about the product
that gets them to overcome their reluctance to give up their name
Now, give us an example of an offer that you’ve made in the past
to a niche audience that’s gotten them to pony up with their name
and email and even other information.
STEPHEN: We do a lot of that with trading stuff.
You’ll see there that we have a quick video
that kind of explains about the free daily trades. But we go for
more than just their name and email address. We go for the whole
enchilada. We get the phone number and it’s made mandatory that
they give us their phone number, their email address, their mailing
address, zip codes. And we also ask…
JIM: Blood type?
JIM: They give you their blood type?
STEPHEN: Not blood type, but we do ask for eye color. (No, I’m
just kidding.) Birth date is optional. Fax number is optional, but we
also give them the option to let us know what they trade so we can
segment them, what their trading style is and what their trading
JIM: So, you’re getting a lot of information from them. What are
you offering them in return for a whole lot of information? You
must be offering them something really good in order to get them
to opt in like that.
STEPHEN: The headline says, “Get free daily trades with an
amazing 417.4% return in a twelve-month period averaging just
four trades a month.”
STEPHEN: They’re getting that absolutely free. There’s paid
services that don’t have that kind of track record. And they’re able
to get this for free. They’re able to see what the fire trade track
market is and detail some other stuff. So when you think about a
market that is driven by greed pretty much, and people just
wanting to make a ton of money, this is a very small exchange. We
clearly put that there’s no obligation and no credit card is needed.
The only thing we want is just information. And also one of the key
things that we’ve found is that, because we ask them what do they
trade, what their trading style is and what they’re trading
experience is,” and let them know that we want to get a little bit
more information about them so that we can better match what it
is we want to send them to what their trading experience is. And a
hundred percent of the people fill that out and let us know what
their trading experience is and answer those three questions.
JIM: Excellent. So I think it would be safe to say, and you
probably want to write this down in your notes, that if you want to
increase the number and quality of your opt-ins, increase the
quality and value of the offer you make them to opt in in the first
JIM: In other words, if you want people to give you their name,
their email, and in Stephen’s case, he getting some pretty
sophisticated information from these people, instead of saying, “No
one will ever give me that information,” say to yourself, “Okay, if I
want this information, what will I have to give them in return to
overcome their desire not to give me the information? What kind of
carrot can I hang out there so that they’ll say, ah okay, I’ll just give
them the information?”
STEPHEN: Another thing about it that is interesting as well is that
right there, we send no affiliate traffic to that. The only thing that
we allow to have happen with that are people that come to us via
search engine. Because remember we’re looking at the quality of
opt-ins and not quantity of opt-ins, and that, so far, has generated
about 1500 opt-ins with 100% data.
STEPHEN: So that’s a completely different kind of list of people
versus the kind of people that the only thing they want to give you
is a name and email address. And again, there’s no paid advertising
sending anybody to that list. People have to find that site via the
search engines to be able to get an opt-in on that.
JIM: Let me ask you a question, that list has 1500 people on it.
Do you have lists that are much bigger than that that aren’t as
STEPHEN: Yeah. We have trading lists on like 16,000, one list
that has about 4500. We have a ton of different segmented lists. I’ll
show you one page that we’ll get to next that’s generated, I’m
looking at it now, 1591 opt-ins. You’ll see where that opt-in comes
in at, and then we go back and we sell them something else and it
gives us a good conversion. So people probably find that interesting
and they’ll probably want to test it on their own site as well.
JIM: Right. But the point that I was trying to make is that, getting
back to the size of the list, sometimes a smaller list where you have
better information about them, you have a better relationship with
them because you’re sending them more targeted and relevant
information, can be much more valuable and much more
responsive than a list that’s multiple times bigger.
JIM: And that’s important. Let’s talk for a minute about okay, you
got your offer, now where do you stick your offer? Well, the most
obvious thing to do is to create a name capture page where, in
order to get what they want, they have to first give you what you
want, which is at a minimum, their name and email. Now we
mentioned before, one of my sites, xxxxx, that’s
where I have that. Stephen’s got his. Say that again, the daily
STEPHEN: It’s xxxx
JIM: It’s xxxx. Now, another place where you can
put your offer, of course, is on an exit pop-up. And some people
will say, “Oh with all the pop-up blockers, exit pop-ups don’t work
anymore.” Well I’m here to tell you exit pops still work. And I use
an exit pop-up on my mortgage loan tips website that nets me
subscribers every single day. Same thing for my for sale by owner.
Same thing on other websites where I’m using the exit pop-up. Exit
pop-ups still work. Do they work as well as they used to? No, but
they still work and they’re part of a multi-prong strategy. It’s kind
of like putting land mines out there. You put a whole bunch of them
out there and hope somebody trips on one of them. But instead of
losing a leg, they get the value of getting on your list.
JIM: Do you still use exit pop-ups?
STEPHEN: Absolutely, I want everybody to go to
xxxx. Just scroll down a little bit and then
where it says, “Reserve your course copy now.” Just click on and go
to the order page. Now, if you don’t have a pop-up blocker on and
you hit the order page and you decide to exit, what do you get?
You get a pop-up that says, “Free special report reveals how to get
more winning trades in a month than you now get all year.” And
then once again, you’ll see that we’re not just asking for a name
and an email address. We’re asking for full data along with
information on their trading styles. And that’s the one that I told
you, I’m looking at it right now, it as 1591 opt-ins.
JIM: Cool. Another place, I’m sorry, were you done?
JIM: Another place where you can put your offer is on pop-under
pages. Again, people are saying, “Ooh, pop-ups don’t work.” Popunder
pages work. Basically what a pop-under is, it’s a page that
loads after your original page has loaded, and so when people close
that window, there’s the pop-under page making the offer for the
opt-in. One of the things that you can do is, if you have a
newsletter or if you have a list that you want people to get onto,
you can create a page, a website that is, its sole purpose in life on
that webpage is simply to gather opt-in subscribers. A good
example of that, from my perspective, is my xxxx
newsletter. When you go there, you get the opportunity to do one
thing: opt-in and get my newsletter. And I know, Stephen, you
have, what’s a website that you have where people, the only
reason for them going there is just to sign up?
STEPHEN: We did a mixture with xxxx, what we did
was, if you go to xxxx, you’ll see that the site is set up
where they can see the video. Actually our interview with Jim
Edwards is up there right now. If you go over to xxxx,
you’ll see about a five-minute or so interview that we did with Jim
Edwards while he was in town. It’s like five minutes and twenty
seconds exactly. You can see that there’s an opt-in where they can
get instant notification or they can “tell a friend” about the website,
which helps the site to be viral and go beyond that parameter of
people that see it, and then they’re the only ones that know that
they saw it. So we try to incentivise them to do that, and that’s
working extremely well. But the whole purpose of the site is just
delivering content. It doesn’t pitch them anything and they like the
content enough that they want to be notified. So our gauge of how
much people like the content and like the site is the traffic versus
how many people are opting-in. And then an extension of that is
how many people are actually telling other people about the site.
The next thing we’re going to gauge is put a link up there where we
can start to track bookmarks.
JIM: Excellent. Let me give you a couple quick tips as far as
increasing your response rate. Whichever way, whether it’s name
capture page, whether it’s an exit pop-up, pop-under, or strictly a
web site devoted to nothing but getting people to sign up to your
offer, a couple of tips that I’ve found that work really, really well.
Number one, the normal button, when you have an opt-in form
usually says something like “submit,” or “subscribe.” I have found
as much as a 54% increase in opt-in rate by getting rid of that
button where it says submit or subscribe and changing it so that
the button says something to the effect of “Give me that report
now,” or “I want that report now.” Now, the reason I think this
works is because when you read something on the web, Stephen,
who’s voice do you hear it in?
STEPHEN: My own.
JIM: You hear it in your own voice. So when you hear your own
voice inside your head say, “Hey give me that report right now,”
isn’t that different than hearing your own voice going “Submit”?
JIM: And so, that will make a huge difference for you when you
get people across that page. And another thing I’ve found makes a
huge difference in getting people to opt-in is adding audio to the
page and telling them exactly what to do. “Hey, this is Jim
Edwards. Put your name and email in the boxes below, click the
button, and you’ll get instant access to the MP3 that blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.” If you tell people what to do with an audio
button, whether it’s Audio Generator or something like that, you
will see an increase in response. Now… What’s that?
STEPHEN: Yes, you will.
JIM: So step one is to target a niche audience, step two is to
create a relevant offer and put it in front of people, and step three
is to drive targeted traffic to your offer on the opt-in page.
Now, we could spend two solid days talking about how to drive
traffic to a web page, to a mini-site and we don’t have two days.
But between us we sat down and counted it up, and between the
two of us, we actually use twenty-seven different online and offline
methods for generating targeted traffic to our websites, our minisites,
and our name capture pages. Would you agree?
JIM: So, we can’t go over all twenty-seven of them right now, but
we do want to go over a couple of them. So we each chose our
favorite. And my favorite way to drive traffic to any webpage, but
specifically to a page where I’m trying to do a name capture and
get people to opt in, is using articles. And the reason I like using
and distributing articles so much is because, when people show up
your mini-site, they come pre-sold. In other words, they just read
an article by you and then they see a resource box. Now, whether
you wrote the article or not is irrelevant. You can hire somebody to
write the article for you. But they’ve read an article that is “by
you,” they’ve seen an offer that, you know, “Hey, Jim Edwards is
the publisher of the I Gotta Tell You newsletter for blah, blah, blah,
multimedia and how to make money online. Go to
xxxx.” So when they click that, what are they
expecting to do when they get to whatever mini-site or website
where they end up? They’re expecting you to offer them an
opportunity to sign up for something.
I also like articles so much because of the fact that it’s so much
easier now than it was even three, four years ago, when I really
started doing this, to get articles out there and get them submitted.
I mean, you can go to article city and submit your articles. There’s
tons of different places where you can submit your articles where
people can pick them up. I love articles and articles are the best
way, in my opinion, for me to get people, get traffic to my
websites. The bottom line with articles is basically, for your niche
audience, you write an article that’s of intense interest to them.
You give them either a little snip-it of a great big picture, or you
show them how to solve a problem, but obviously that isn’t the only
problem they’re ever going to have. Or you give them the top ten
of something or review of a website. You give them little tidbits of
information in article form, get other people to distribute them for
you, whether it’s through the search engines, newsletter
publishers, ezine publishers, people putting your content. There’s a
lot of stuff going on now with RSS and people adding articles to
their websites when they’re making these content rich sites.
There’re so many different avenues and ways to get your articles
out there. But the bottom line is when somebody sees your article,
reads your article, sees your resource box and they show up, you
have the highest likelihood, that I’m aware of, of any means of
driving traffic, of actually having those people opt-in. Because after
they’ve read that article and they’ve gotten a taste of what you
have to offer, then when they come to your site, they’re expecting
to find out more about you and probably sign up for your deal. So
to me, I like articles the best. They’re my favorite.
STEPHEN: And for me, and this may seem obvious for some of
those that are on the call that came from our mailing, it’s the
Smart Pages. People ask the question, “Do Smart Pages still work?”
For us, that’s not the correct question, because it’s not an issue of
still works. While a lot of people with their page generating
packages have continued to come up with updated versions and
having to battle the different changes and algorithms of the search
engines, the very original Smart Pages in my book The Whole Truth
that people were doing by hand are still ranking in the top of the
We have clients that have the Smart Pages out and they’ve been
up there for years. Actually one guy, he was number 7 among
about 1.2 million searchers or so. We actually showed this at the
Big Seminar. Over two years later, he actually got ranked a few
days after we first released The Whole Truth. He’s now number 2
and number 3 for the same phrase while the results have now
returned over 3 million different results. So his Smart Pages are
still holding strong.
We have one guy. He was selling a product. He was only selling two
a month. He started using Smart Pages and he sells over forty a
month now through Smart Pages. The thing is, is that Smart Pages
works so well, but because we haven’t tried to commoditize Smart
Pages, like other people with their software, and we’ve just been
quiet about it, and people that are using them successfully don’t
really want us to say anything about them; the thing is the way
Smart Pages have been designed to work is they actually exploit
different search gaps that are in the search engines.
If you go by what Google’s own scientists say, they tell you that out
of over the 200 million searches they get each day, 200 million,
they said 50% of them are unique searches, which means about
100 million searches, the combinations of what people are
searching for are not going to show up in the inventory dot
overture tool. They’re not going to show up in Wordtracker. They’re
not going to show up in any of these places because they’re too
unique of a search. They’re not repetitive, common, general
searches that people are putting in on a regular basis that can be
captured within those types of programs. But the way Smart Pages
have been designed to work is they actually exploit, because the
way the pages are put together, they actually exploit those
And I learned like five years ago the search engines were no way
near as competitive as they are right now. And we had huge
domination for phrases like stocks trading, futures trading, options
trading, commodities trading. For one of those phrases, we had like
4 of the top 10 positions in Google. And we learned that those key
words were not yielding us anything by way of sales, as compared
to some of the more specific keyword phrases. That turned our
attention to, not what looked the best, but what was the actual
best results. So to us, a number one ranking, what didn’t amount
to a hill of beans if that number one ranking wasn’t translating into
targeted traffic that was turning into targeted opt-ins, that were
turning into long-term paying customers. And what we found was
that the lower search terms, that low hanging fruit, as a lot of
people like to call it, is where the higher quality people were
So we learned that the way to actually win the search engine
game, if you want to call it winning, is to exploit the gaps that are
out there instead of spending a lot of time and money, because it
can get very expensive in the pay-per-clicks, as well as very
expensive time wise if you’re trying to optimize organically to
compete in very highly competitive markets with those general
search terms. For us, we experienced it first-hand. It wasn’t a huge
yield. We saw the huge results that come from what may seem to
be obscure keywords to most people. And for some people it’s like
“Well, that’s not number one for this phrase that a million people
are searching for each month.” You can spend the time and money
trying to get number one for that if you want. I can almost
guarantee you you’ll probably get a lot of views. If you’re there,
you’ll probably get a lot of clicks, but that visibility for us did not
translate to any kind of yield financially.
If you look at a lot of those companies that pay a ton of money per
click, they’re not looking to do what a lot of people try to sell
Internet marketers do, which is to try to get the yield off of a click.
They have a very systemized process on how to take those people
that click and they’re paying five or ten bucks for that click, putting
them through a process where they know they’re going to get a
yield down the road. Well, if you don’t have a system that is proven
and that has been refined, to be able to understand that, you know
what, you’ll end up maybe paying fifty dollars to get a person in,
but that person is going to yield you maybe two hundred, two
hundred and fifty dollars x number of weeks or months down the
road. And you have the cash, the reserves, or you’ve been doing it
long enough that you’re profitable so it works for you. But you have
to look at other ways, and for us Smart Pages have been this
disarming way to constantly draw a ton of traffic from the search
engines while people weren’t paying attention to you. And it has
worked for years and years and years. And to this day we’re
starting to see a lot of people, after a lot of these other programs
have been basically trashed by the search engine, they’re starting
to stand up and be like, “You know what, the only thing that seems
to still be working for me are these Smart Pages that I’ve had out
there for all this time,” and it’s true.
Google has gone through some of its largest algrorithm changes in
the history of its existence, but yet, it hasn’t been able to shake
Smart Pages because they are not using anything shady. So for us,
it stands from five years ago to today, our favorite way is to use
JIM: Cool. All right. Well, let’s summarize so far. The four-step
process is basically 1) target a specific laser-focused niche, 2)
create a relevant offer and find a bunch of different ways to put it
in front of them, and 3) drive targeted traffic to that opt-in page.
Now, step four is where we start growing our relationship with the
list through continuous contact. And I know you had something
that you wanted to share right up front on this one.
STEPHEN: Right. A lot of people for their whole building the list
process, they think of building a list as “Let’s put these pages out,
let’s get these opt-ins, and let’s get this traffic,” and rah, rah. You
know, “Let’s do that.” That’s not building your list. That is just
name and email address acquisitions. The list building aspect starts
the moment they’ve opted in. What are you starting to deliver to
them by way of content? What are you starting to deliver to them
that’s exciting, that’s engaging, that’s enticing, that’s educational;
that’s going to move them from where they are to a little bit closer
to where they ultimately want to be, so that when they look at you,
you’re sending them this content and they’re able to get these
small wins from the content? You’re not giving them everything,
but you’re giving them enough so that you’re able to prove your
expertise. And it’s like, “Listen, I can make a difference in your life
with this free content. Imagine the difference I can make in your
life with my paid premium content. And some people are like, “I
can’t give them all that. If I give them all that, then I don’t have
anything else to sell them.” It that’s the position you’re in, then I
would have to question your level of expertise and knowledge in
your field. You should have plenty of content that you can give to
people that can make a huge difference in their life and still have
content that you can give to them at a premium price and make a
ton of money off of it as they delightfully and willingly pay you for
that content. If you are not in that position, then you need to go
and further educate yourself in your market, or maybe find out
what you’re really, really good at so that you can do that. But the
JIM: That was a really polite way of saying, “You’re a one trick
STEPHEN: Right, but the main point is the list building aspect
does not start until they actually have opted in. List building is not
about how many ads you run to get people to your opt-in page. It’s
not about how many people that actually opt in to the page. It’s the
quality of the process that you take them through after they have
opted in, which is what we call in a PDF a long time ago the inhaleexhale
method. If you think about it, and this is the rotation of
content and pitches, for lack of a better phrase, I know people
don’t like the word pitch, but it’s just a sales pitch that you’re
giving to people. The process of breathing is inhaling and exhaling.
If you try to do one without the other, you’re going to die because
you can’t inhale into infinity. You can’t exhale into infinity. You have
to rotate them in the natural process called breathing. The same
thing with your list. It’s the process of delivering highly impassable
and actionable content that they can utilize and lay down cookbook
fashion, step by step. “If you do this, you’re going to get
immeasurable results” type of thing. You rotate that kind of stuff
with content that actually sells them something and invites them to
go to a different level, move vertically with some paid premium
I like to look at it and tell people, “The content that you give people
that is free, by the time they are finished reading it, you want them
to kind of be like the teenage girls at the rock concert standing on
their chairs, kicking, screaming, wanting an encore from the band
that just walked off the stage.” They just can’t take it anymore.
They want you to come back so much so that the moment you send
them an offer, giving them something that they can pay you for,
they rip out that credit card without even blinking, without even
consulting a mate. You want them to be like “Bam, you know what,
I gotta get this.” Because you have made a difference in their life
and you made that difference in their life for free, so they know
that whatever you’re going to offer them that’s on a premium level
that they have to pay for is going to be even more impassable, at
least based on the track record of the free content that you gave
JIM: I agree, and the metaphor that I use is basically I
continuously make payments or deposits into their mental bank
account. And occasionally, I’ve built up enough of a deposit that
it’s okay for me to make a withdrawal. And that’s the way I look at
it. You’ve got to put in before you can pull out. I think people have
their ego attached to the size of their list, number one, and number
two, they’re thinking in terms of what they can get from the list
instead of thinking, “What value can I put into the list so that they
will favor me with a value in return?” I think the key, whether it’s a
pitch or whether it’s just straight content, I think the key is to
make sure always that it is relevant. And I see this sometimes, I
don’t subscribe to that many lists anymore because it just takes up
too much time. I like to find the people that I know and trust, and
then I look to them to guide me in the ways that I need to go. I
have noticed though, that the ones who are always relevant,
always on target, always fitting with why I signed up with them in
the first place are the ones that I trust the most.
So we’d have to say that if you want to build your relationship with
the list, the number one thing is that you need to keep it relevant.
And you need to stay on point and on target with why they came to
you in the first place. And you can gradually move in new
directions, you can gradually change, but you can’t have people
sign up to your, you know, ‘learning how to trade futures and
options’ and then one day decide that you want to be Martha
Stewart and start emailing them recipes. It just isn’t going to
The next question that a lot of people ask when you’re talking
about building a list is, “How often, how regularly should I send this
content? Should I send it daily?” There are some publications that
are very successful that send sometimes twice a day still in email.
Some do daily, some do weekly, some do monthly. I think it really
just depends in your objectives and in theirs. But like with me, I
send an article. Pretty much you can depend on me to send you an
article every Tuesday. Pretty much every Tuesday I send out an
multimedia content that I send out. But like clockwork, I pretty
much send that article every Tuesday. Now, if I immediately
switched and started sending content every single day or even
twice a day, do you think my list would react negatively?
STEPHEN: If it’s not what they want, then maybe so.
JIM: Yeah. Well, especially if it’s not what they wanted. But even if
they were used to me doing something every week and then I
started doing something every singe day or twice a day, I think
there’d be a negative shake out.
STEPHEN: Right. One thing you want to do when you’re building
your list and you’re starting to communicate with them is to set the
expectation and leverage what we call ‘contact conditioning.’ What
that means is pretty much what Jim told you. You set the
expectation on when they’re going to get this content. For us,
we’ve been doing free daily trades since 1997. They know they’re
going to get their trades Sunday through Thursday for the markets
Monday through Friday. And they can generally expect them over a
specific Eastern-time timeframe. But how do you leverage that?
Well, if your content is something that they look forward to, they
cherish it, it’s impassable to them, and it’s the one thing they
always look forward to getting on whatever that timetable is, when
do you think the best time is to send your offer? The best time to
send your offer is when you know you’re going to have the higher
viewership. Because if they’re expecting that about 7 p.m. Eastern
time is when you’re generally going to send your emails out on
whatever that day is, then the best time to send that offer is when
they’re expecting to get email from you.
We get people that complain to us if we don’t send them our free
content. That lets you know that you’re doing stuff right. When
people don’t get their free daily trades from us, then they will
contact us and they will complain as if they were paying customers.
You know, they’re getting these things for free. I can appreciate it
because it lets me know how much they value the free content that
they’re getting. And then, the more you start to mail your lists, you
want to start to pay attention to the rhythm of your list. And what I
mean by that is what we call marketing timing.
For example, with our free daily trades, we know that if we haven’t
sent the free daily trades out with consistent winners, or we sent
the free daily trades out and have pretty much been busy or
traveling, so I really haven’t had time to put the trades in but
they’re going out with no trades, that’s not the best time send an
offer. But, if we’ve been sending the free daily trades out and the
free daily trades have been getting very, very consistent wins and
it’s been a really strong winning streak, then we know the best
time to start sending offers for premium content because we’re on
this winning high, whether it’s in paper trades or in their real
accounts. So we discovered the specific rhythm of our list.
So you want to look at your list and find out what the rhythm is;
you know, the nature of your market, the nature of your list, the
nature of your content. It’s going to probably be completely
different, but understand those three different things. Understand
the contact conditioning, understand the marketing timing, and get
a feel for the rhythm of your list.
JIM: Yeah. I call that peppering the beaches. I like to use a World
War II metaphor where basically you hammer the beaches with
some artillery before you put the troops ashore. I like to hit them
with a lot of value before we actually try to hit them with a
Now let’s talk for a minute about the kinds of things that you can
send to your list to prep them and to make them feel like every
contact with you is special, and every contact from you is valueadded,
and you’re not always just on a pitch roll. One of the things
that I love to send out, again just because I’m creating them every
week, is articles. I love to send out articles because they have a
beginning, middle and end. They are usually something that people
can either act on or benefit from immediately, and it has some sort
of positive impact in a very short period of time. It appeals to their
microwave mentality. And anybody, if you know the basic patterns
can churn out a really good article in about an hour. And a good
article is not based on your writing skills. It’s based on how well
you understand the market and how well you understand you
audience. And so, you can churn out a good article in about an
hour. You send that out to your list and they feel really good about
you, and you’re building your reputation in their minds. What are
some of the things that you send out?
STEPHEN: We send out all kinds of stuff. We’ll send out videos.
We send out PDFs. We send out articles that are probably written
from partners of ours. We send out stuff that we feel is relevant
and is going to add value to them.
JIM: Right. Well, I send out a lot of videos and multimedia stuff as
well, but the key is to make sure that it’s relevant to what they
want. And one of the best ways, here’s a little key that you should
probably write down. One of the best ways to create content that
your audience will really love by answering their questions. So, set
up a system so that people will ask you questions on a consistent
basis, and if you’re ever stuck for some content, if you don’t know
what to write an article about, or if you’re just looking for
something you can write, answer some questions. Take some
reader questions and answer them. Whether it’s an audio or written
form, or even making a video answering a question. People love it.
Because if you answer a question, chances are they have that
question and didn’t ever ask it, or they didn’t even realize they
should have that question. Or if they already knew it, it’ll be a great
reminder for them. So that’s always a great back-up way to have
relevant content that’s extremely useful for your target audience is
simply to answer questions.
Now, let’s break into the mechanical elements of actually building a
solid list, and there are actually two parts to building the list.
There’s the opt-in page and there’s the autoresponder database
that you use so that you can follow up with people automatically.
Now, the characteristics of a really good opt-in page, and you want
to write these down. Number one, it’s relevant to their wants,
needs and desires. In other words, you know, this is a stupid
example, but if you’re selling them stuff on day trading, you don’t
want to have information in there about antique furniture. It’s just
The second thing you want to make sure that your opt in page has
is a bribe that’s going to overcome their reluctance to give up their
information to you. The more information that you want to get, the
more value, the better the bribe you’ve got to give them. Another
thing that’s going to make a big difference in whether you get optins
or not is having a lot of benefit statements on your opt-in page.
Don’t tell them what it is that they’re going to get. Tell them what
it’s going to do for them when they opt in. And I think that a lot of
people fall into that trap of talking about what they’re going to talk
about and fall into the trap of what their product is or what their list
is or what they’re actually going to be providing. Nobody cares
what it is. What they care about is what it’s going to do for them.
Then what you need to do is make sure that you’re very specific as
far as telling them exactly what to do as far as signing up. Now you
might think this sounds obvious, but try ever going to a page and
not knowing where to go or what to do or trying to figure
something out on your own. One of the things that you always
must do is tell people in plain language exactly what to do. “Go to
the form below, put in your name, put in your email, and click the
button in order to subscribe.” Now you might think that sounds
obvious, but putting that verbiage on your opt-in page will increase
your opt-ins, because it tells people clearly and concisely what to
do. Another thing that will increase your opt-ins is to have verbiage
on your opt-in page that says, “We’re not going to spam you. We’ll
respect your privacy and we hate spam with a passion.” If you put
something like that in there, that will increase your opt-ins as well.
So that’s the first part of the mechanics.
The other part of the mechanics is having an autoresponder
database so that you can follow up automatically, and there are a
ton of them out on the market. There’s AutoResponse Plus. There’s
AWeber. There’s One Shopping Cart. There’s a bunch of them. But
the bottom line is you need a system, mechanical system, that
enables people to put in their name, email and other information in
a form on your opt-in name capture page, click a button, and then
instantly receive a message from you, and then get messages from
you automatically at predetermined intervals in the future. Because
the power of having a list is half you sending stuff when you have
new stuff to send. But the other half is conditioning each subscriber
individually with the preloaded autoresponder messages that you
have where you teach them how to consume your products; where
you teach them what kinds of information you’re going to send and
when; where you give them value-added information after you’ve
given them other information. So basically, it allows you to bring
your subscribers up to speed and get them very familiar with you
and with the value that you offer. And then it kind of brings them
into the fold of the bigger list. Do you have anything to add to that,
STEPHEN: No sir.
JIM: Okay. Well, one of the reasons that we had this call was, a)
that we wanted to give you some tips, tricks and techniques and
really lay out the blueprint for you of how to create a list, and I
think we’ve done that. We’ve talked about the four steps for
building a list. We gave you tips on targeting a niche, and Stephen
gave you some really good tips on nanoniche targeting, where
basically you go after a super hyper-small niche and then use that
as your unique selling proposition to get people to pay attention to
your message, because all of a sudden you’ll have no competitors
going after the same market as yourself.
We talked about how you actually set up your opt-in page and what
you can do to increase the number of opt-ins that you get. We
talked about mechanical things like having audio on your opt-in
page and how to put the verbiage into your subscribe button so
that you’ll increase the likelihood of people subscribing. We talked
about how to get traffic to that opt-in page, which, in my opinion,
articles are one of the best. And Stephen has told you that Smart
Pages are another way to get traffic very much under the radar and
also for free. And that’s another great thing about articles as well.
And then we talked about how to build your relationship with your
list, and I think ultimately that’s the most important part, because
once you understand the principles and the recipes and the
blueprints for building a list, driving traffic to a page, tweaking the
page and getting people to sign up. Getting people to sign up to
your list is really not as hard as people make it out to be. Where
the real challenge is is communicating with them, growing them
and developing the relationship and the trust and the ability to get
them to listen to you above all the clutter and all the noise that’s
out there in the marketplace. And we talked about some of the
ways to do that, but the most specific way of doing that is 1)
acknowledging that it’s your responsibility to send them only
relevant information, and 2) to establish in their minds when and
how you’re going to communicate with them so that they can
anticipate what you’re going to send. And then finally we talked
about the things that you can send them. You can send them
articles. You can send them audio MP3s. You can send them screen
capture video. The important thing is to keep it relevant
and to manage their expectations so they’re anticipating.
Finally, we talked about how the mechanics work. We touched on
the mechanics of what needs to be on your opt-in page, and also
mechanically what you need as far as something to manage your
list. And that’s not complicated and we didn’t really spend that
much time on it, because it’s not complicated.
Any of the office self-software out there or the things that we
mentioned, as far as services on the web, that can help you to
manage your list are great. AWeber is wonderful. One Shopping
Cart is great. AutoResponse Plus is great. What you need is the
ability to generate multiple lists and to be able to do broadcasts,
and any of those services will enable you to do that.
STEPHEN: All right everybody, goodnight.
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?’